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Opinions on a Celtic AR Tetradrachm

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  • Opinions on a Celtic AR Tetradrachm

    Dear folks,

    I'm at a standstill on a certain coin:



    Purchased as:

    Celtic, Danube Region (Imitating Philip II of Macedon) - Circa 2nd century BC - AR Tetradrachm (7.91 grams) - Celtic bust of Philip II right / Galloping horse left - De la Tour 9883; CCCBM I, 39ff. Toned Very Fine

    Good metal quality attractive toning well centered on a choice flan

    Ex. Gerhard Hirsch Auction 164 (1989), lot 14; Ex. Funk collection (with tag info)

    When I sent the coin to John Lavender to photograph, he commented: "I'm pretty sure your Celtic coin is a modern forgery, but you may want to have Freeman look at it to confirm."

    The seller to me noted after I advised him of John's suspicion: "Rob Freeman has seen this coin at the New York International and tried to convince me to put it in his Mail Bid Sale 14 (2007)."

    I showed it to Mr. Freeman at the ANA show in Milwaukee last month and he said to me there were aspects about it he liked and didn't like with respect to it being an authentic ancient coin. Unfortunately, our schedules at the show did not afford the opportunity for us to get together and discuss any of the details.

    So....the coin sits in the safe, unresolved. Any comments?

    Thanks,

    --Zach Beasley
    VCoins Ancients Store:
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  • #2
    Just saw this Zack. Have you come to any conclusions about this coin?

    Bill Blank
    Dream not of today...

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    • #3
      Hello Bill,

      Just starting to catch up on everything after being gone at a show the past three days.

      Nope - no clue on this. Last person to see it in hand was Rob Freeman and since he couldn't give a definitive good/bad on it, I had no choice but to let it sit in the safe until someone recognizes it one way or another. Did you have an opinion on it?

      Thanks and best regards,

      --Zach
      VCoins Ancients Store:
      http://www.vcoins.com/beastcoins

      VCoins US/Banknotes Store:
      http://www.vcoins.com/us/beastcoins

      VCoins World Store:
      http://www.vcoins.com/world/beastcoins

      Beast Coins Research Site:
      http://www.beastcoins.com

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      • #4
        So, assuming that this statement is true, "Rob Freeman has seen this coin at the New York International and tried to convince me to put it in his Mail Bid Sale 14 (2007)." Why would he then mention to you that, "there were aspects about it he liked and didn't like with respect to it being an authentic ancient coin?"

        This discrepancy offers a couple of possibilities (in my mind). Either (1) Mr. Freeman has no problem offering "borderline" coins for bid in the Mail Bid Sales; (2) he was equivocating because he really has no firm idea one way or the other and is relying upon someone to call the coin before making a firm statement; and/or (3) he's downplaying the value of the coin by equivocating and hoping that you will consign for a lower price.

        Jeff

        Comment


        • #5
          Jeff,

          My bad - the original statements from John Mixter, although are quotes from an email from him, have been amended in private. John wrote to me last week to let me know Rob had in fact not actually seen the coin in hand, just in photos and he wanted to clear up that confusion. I wrote to him to say that made sense as when I showed Rob the coin, he remembered it, but said he did not remember seeing the coin in hand.

          So, no deception going on Rob's part, just some confusion in the chain of events.

          What had happened was that John emailed Rob about this and some other coins for potential consignment and Rob indicated he would like them. John then emailed saying he wanted to put reserves on the coins to minimize his risk and John didn't receive a reply for one reason or another, so he didn't consign this and the other coins he had.

          I hope that clears up any confusion that I may have inadvertantly left out there about the background of this piece.

          --Zach
          VCoins Ancients Store:
          http://www.vcoins.com/beastcoins

          VCoins US/Banknotes Store:
          http://www.vcoins.com/us/beastcoins

          VCoins World Store:
          http://www.vcoins.com/world/beastcoins

          Beast Coins Research Site:
          http://www.beastcoins.com

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          • #6
            O.K., that makes sense. Did Rob say what about the coin gave him pause? These celtic issues are so difficult substantiate on style/devices alone as there is such variance between issues.

            J

            Comment


            • #7
              No - the Milwaukee ANA show was extremely busy all six days and neither of us were able to get away from our tables to talk about it.
              VCoins Ancients Store:
              http://www.vcoins.com/beastcoins

              VCoins US/Banknotes Store:
              http://www.vcoins.com/us/beastcoins

              VCoins World Store:
              http://www.vcoins.com/world/beastcoins

              Beast Coins Research Site:
              http://www.beastcoins.com

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              • #8
                Modern day analysis?

                I am certainly no "expert" or anything else, re: these Celtic tets, but just for the sake of my own inquiry, would it be possible to have this coin analyzed by some modern scientific method that would at least give a dating for it? If it is a modern reproduction then the variance betw. its dating and that of a BC coin would be substantial enough to give a verdict....

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't know, Zack. My 1st impression was looks OK. But, looking thru refs, it really has a funny head, esp the hair. Just one oval would be nice.

                  I wonder when Funk collected? Can you definitely say it is a struck coin?

                  I bet it is OK, just a weird die.

                  Bill
                  Dream not of today...

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                  • #10
                    The design is very basic, so how do you go about deciding if it's genuine or not?
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