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Authenticity Distinguishing between genuine and fake objects.

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Old Dec 7, 2009, 07:56 PM   #1
numismo
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Impossible request

This is a seemingly impossible request so I really do not expect too much.

I have just been offered a couple of gold coins down here that I have serious
doubts about, but could not get images of them before they were taken away
by the vendors (no camera or scanner to hand! ).

They were a Caracalla Aureus (7.35g) and an Antiochos VI Dionysos stater (7.76g).

I have little doubts about them being fake, but wanted to ask if anyone can
assist jogging my memory on a couple of relatively minor details.

The Caracalla was a youthful portrait type, but notably had a clear "o" below
the bust. This is a detail I seem to recall seeing somewhere before, but cannot
place where. It may have been an unusual Elagabalus, but less likely to my eye.
There was an unusual thing about the obverse lettering, it was all over the
place size-wise, the S was huge and other letters were tiny, very strange.
Foolishly (Doh!), I forgot to note the reverse type, but it was a standing figure.

Do you know of any fakes with such details, and perhaps an image of same?

The Seleukid item was easy. With Ant.VI's portraits being so strikingly alike
across most of his issues, this piece stood out for many reasons as being fake.
It was flat, lifeless, the portrait was nothing like Ant.VI, the figure of Apollo was
not right, lettering a little strange, among other things, etc.

The vendors said ("a usual story") that the coins had been in the family for
decades and there are a couple more other items they want to show me at a
later time, so I may be able to get an image at some later stage. They were
an older Hungarian couple and claimed that they had been to a couple of US
dealers (unspecified) on their way from Europe to Australia. They have done
the "rounds" at a couple of local dealers as well, however none but one of
the dealers they saw has any real idea about ancients (lucky me!).

Hopefully they come back so I can get images of these things.

If any of this sounds familiar, then I would like to hear from you.

Thanks in advance.

Walter Holt
Sydney, Australia
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Old Dec 7, 2009, 08:10 PM   #2
bpmurphy
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The Carcalla is tough, but there is a Fake Antiochos Stater that has been around for years. It's published in the IAPN Bulletin and I've seen 3 or 4 of these.

Barry Murphy
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Old Dec 8, 2009, 07:08 AM   #3
numismo
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That's the one! Brilliant. Well spotted.
I am sure it was your vast brain, not my woeful description that led you to this.
I have advised a couple of the locals down here to be aware of these items.
Thanks again,

Walter
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Old Nov 5, 2011, 04:05 AM   #4
numismo
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Impossible request - Now possible!

Hi Barry and list,
They have surfaced again!
This time they were, unfortunately, bought by a good friend.
The good news is that I was able to get an image of each of them.



and



The Antiochus IV is well known (thanks Barry), but does anyone know
anything further about the Caracalla? (yes, my memory failed me, this
is clearly NOT a standing figure - see original post; *unless these are
another two fakes and the standing figure one is still out there).

Walter Holt
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Old Nov 10, 2011, 07:22 PM   #5
djmacdo
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Bad also!

I am afraid the aureus is also clearly bad. Notice the linear circle outside of the beaded circle. That represents the edge of the original coin from which the false die was made. This is a feature common on fakes and, as far as I know, unknown on authentic coins.

Mac
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 07:12 AM   #6
Roma_Orbis
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It is indeed a bad fake; a good fake aureus (able to pass the test of an international public auction) wouldn't bear that mark

Jérôme
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