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Authenticity Distinguishing between genuine and fake objects.

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Old Dec 31, 2009, 04:11 PM   #1
TheLoneKnight
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Authenticity Opinions Please...

Hello all,

I purchased this coin from a Vcoins dealer with a gift card I received for Christmas.
I am not sure about it. Maybe I am being paranoid about the rim? I wanted some additional opinions. I have included links to the full resolution pictures in my flickr album.

Thanks for any feedback and Happy New Year!

Best regards,
-Shawn

Roman Republic M Furius L f Philus 120 BC 3.8g 19.46mm


Full Resolution link: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2495/...6c72f5db_o.jpg


Full Resolution link: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2603/...5a2ca33b_o.jpg


Full Resolution link: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/...4089598d_o.jpg


Full Resolution link: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4013/...850d0e47_o.jpg
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Old Jan 1, 2010, 04:54 AM   #2
4to2centophilia
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I am sure someone like Monsieur Davis can lend some of his Republic expertise. I understand your concern about the file marks, but my question is more about design.

The reverse has a distinctly Celtic look to me. Was this sold as a Celtic imitation, or was it minted in the provinces?
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Old Jan 1, 2010, 02:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4to2centophilia View Post
Was this sold as a Celtic imitation, or was it minted in the provinces?
Thanks for the reply. It was sold as an original roman republic, but if it is a period copy I could even live with that. My real worry is about it possibly being a modern fake.
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Old Jan 1, 2010, 06:08 PM   #4
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Authentic?

I am certainly no expert on Roman Republican, but the style looks good to me, but I am very bothered by what seems to be copper at the edge. Could this be an electrotype, which are silver plating on a bronze shell, often filled with lead. What is the weight? If the weight is correct, I would suggest the filed area on the edge may be where a copper mount was once attached and has since been removed. In any event, it is at best a damaged coin and if not advertised as such, I would return it.

Mac
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Old Jan 1, 2010, 06:48 PM   #5
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The dies, at any rate, are ancient and official. I don't see it as an imitation. It seems possible anyway that the copper color and apparent "join" on the edge are both artifacts of photography, so I'm not prepared to firmly weigh in on authenticity from the photos. I can see both sides (so to speak.) If the discoloration is not in fact evident on the actual coin, the chances are pretty good that it's ancient. The filing is filing though, no doubt about that; presumably the coin is ex-jewelry. As Mac points out, this is unquestionably damage and reasonable grounds for returning the coin if it wasn't dislcosed. If the coin was cheap, say <$50, it's worth it even damaged; much more than that and I suggest sending it back.

Phil Davis
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Old Jan 3, 2010, 05:53 AM   #6
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Phil you are correct that the copper color is artifacts of the photo. I feel a bit better now hearing that the dies appear official. Though I think I will contact the seller and see what I can work out as I paid quite a bit more than $50. Thanks for all of the responses.
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Old Jan 3, 2010, 07:28 PM   #7
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Hi

Did they break these flans off of a sprue when making them, thus meaning you invariably have a flattened part which they may have/have not filed down in the manufacturing process?

I am looking into a similar issue for Anglo-Saxon Thrymsa and Sceats at the moment.

Brgds

Alex
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Old Jan 4, 2010, 12:39 PM   #8
Roma_Numismatics
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexB View Post
Did they break these flans off of a sprue when making them, thus meaning you invariably have a flattened part which they may have/have not filed down in the manufacturing process?
In short, no. What you have on the edge there is most probably damage that was caused to the coin while it was in the ground. It is not uncommon for ancient coins to be damaged by ploughs, diggers etc.

The style of the obverse is unquestionably official; the reverse of this type may appear somewhat crude, but that is probably the lack of fine detail amplified by the poor condition. Indeed, although this type is common, it is remarkably difficult to find in a good state of preservation. These two examples are among the better ones sold in recent years - you can see that the style is very similar, but the reverse die is a little bit simpler in detail, in particular note the carnyces which are oversimplified on your example.
I don't think this is an imitation, just a rather poorly engraved reverse die, and no - you certainly wouldn't expect to get it for as little as $50 - I'd say around $200 for this coin would be fair these days.

All the best,
Rich Beale
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