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Medieval Medieval coinage.

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Old Jan 23, 2010, 03:29 AM   #1
Hammy
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Hi All - I've recently joined the forum 'cos of my interest in medieval coins. My collection is not too big but all I have are metal detecting finds. Strangly enough the most common find is Edward 1st - there must have been a lot of careless folk about in those days LOL, although having done some research on my village history I find that Edward granted a village market during his reign, perhaps I've found the old site where the market was held. Having said that, I recently found in the same area, a nice condition short cross King John - or I believe it to be one of his but it could have been from his father's reign (Richard 1st - The lionheart) The coin is with York museum for exact identification at the moment - but I get it back in a couple of weeks time. meanwhile I've put a picture on for anyone with any interest. You will see that the coin has the mark of Henry (Richard's father) on it, but I'm told that Richard and John continued with the same design for their coins with just very slight variations. anyway here it is.

Cheers All, Hammy
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Old Jan 23, 2010, 06:19 AM   #2
Jotapian
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Hello,

Your penny appears to be a Short Cross penny of King John (Younger Brother of Richard I & son of Henry II). It belongs to the Class 5 Sub type b - See English Hammered Coinage Vol I by JJ North Ref No 970 b(ii) - Ref Plate 19 No 3.

The reverse reading from the Cross Pattee initial mark reads:- WILLEM (or more likely WILLELM) ON CIC. Which if I have read it correctly is William on Cichester. JJ North records a type 5b for Willem but not Willelm which is my preferred reading of the Moneyer on your coin. Whether this Moneyer has been recorded for Cichester before is a moot point - so in that case your coin is interesting for this record alone and I'm glad to note that you have submitted it to York Museum for verification & recording presumably under the Portable Antiquities Scheme.

If you haven't already joined you may also like to join Tim Cook's "Englishhammered" Moneta-L site which as the name implies is mainly concerned with English Medieval coins.

I should also congratulate your photography on getting the orientation of the coin correctly aligned particularly the reverse which helps enormously when trying to read the legends.

Cheers - Jotapian
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Old Jan 23, 2010, 07:07 AM   #3
Hammy
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Hi Jotapian - Thanks for your reply about my coin. It's good to know now that if I find any coins with a doubtful history I can put them on this site for ID. Yes I report all my finds under the PAS although I have yet to be lucky enough to find something reportable under the Treasure Act, but I live in hope of course. For taking close up photos of my finds I use a Veho digital camera attached to my computer - it's very good for obtaining close ups of sections of badly worn coins - to get a full picture as I have done with the 'John' hammered I stand it on a small size tin can (as shown in the photo) Thanks also for the information on the Moneta-L site, I'll see if I can get onto it and have a look.

Cheers,

Hammy
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Old Jan 23, 2010, 08:02 AM   #4
Jotapian
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Hammy,
Just to add that in the Standard Catalogue of British Coins (SCBC) I notice that WILLELM is the recognised Moneyer for Chichester rather than WILLEM - I presume that since publication of JJ North's Vol I 1994 3rd revised edition this moneyer's monica has been revised. The identified name given by JJ North was obviously based on a mis-reading based on a worn coin.

This interpretation of names given on the coins of this period can be particularly fraught due to the use of 'Ligatured' lettering i.e. letters joined together. The Long Cross coins of Henry III have some amazing linked letters - mostly N & R in HENRY or sometimes ENR in HENRY - paired A's & N's or O's & N's are commonly seen in the reverse legends.

Cheers - Jotapian
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Old Feb 6, 2010, 07:49 AM   #5
Hammy
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Hi Jotapian - I collected my coin from York museum today. The Archaeolgist confirm that it is as you said - a Chichester silver penny of John 1204 - 1209. Now pf course it will be recorded on the Portable Antiqities Database. The other interesting thing I was told was that during this period, 20 of these pennies would have been the purchase price of a Ewe - a Ram would have been cheaper apparently. Anyway, thanks for your help and interest - I'll probably post any special medieval on here in future so that anyone with an interest in that period can have a look.

Many Thanks,

Hammy
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Old Feb 7, 2010, 04:26 AM   #6
Jotapian
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Hammy,
My pleasure.

Jotapian
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