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Old Jan 29, 2004, 11:31 AM   #1
Jotapian
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Medieval Hammered English Coins

Are there any other Collectors of English Hammered coins out there ? This was the first coin series I started collecting way back in the 1960's before I branched out into Ancient coins - most of my initial collection I sold off to buy Roman & Greek coins - oh how I wish I still had my almost EF heavy Groat of Edward IV bought for next to nothing (in current terms) from the Oxford Coin Centre.
My collecting has now come full circle and I am back to collecting Hammered English again - initially I bought Pennies of Edward I mainly with a pedigree (ie JJ North Collection) if possible. I restrict myself to coins minted between AD 1279 to 1485. Although I have acquired a significant number of coins through the main stream dealer network there are quite a number of bargains to be had on Ebay if you know what you are looking for. But dealers are not immune to selling rarities in error for relatively common coins - I bought a very rare B/A Gold Half Noble of Edward III through CNG's now defunct Ebay site a couple of years ago at very reasonable price - my research on this coin has found a parallel and possible die link with an example from the Doubleday Collection. So if any of you fancy a break from Ancients try Hammered English - if so and you need any help give me a call via this resource.
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Old Feb 2, 2004, 03:14 AM   #2
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A friend of mine had a fine collection of Romanian medieval coins but he sold it soon after 1990 and now he is feeling bad 'cause these coins are harder and harder to get and he had some really nice ones!...
Collecting the coins of your country gives you a very nice feeling - you feel as close as possible to your own history...I fully understand you Jotapian!...

Bogdan.
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Old Feb 2, 2004, 11:06 PM   #3
PatrickMaloney
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That's a nice penny, Jotapian (or may I call you Joe? ) I collect English hammered coins along with Roman Imperials and Byzantines, and the oddment from other cultures to add interest and contemporary comparisons. I don't have many English hammereds, I find that they are generally more expensive than the older Roman coins (at least at the budget level at which I collect). Mind you, I picked up this nice penny of Henry III (type Vg - the commonest, I know) for just 12 at the York Coin Fair in January. I appreciate that this coin falls slightly earlier than your stated dates.
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Old Feb 3, 2004, 01:41 PM   #4
Jotapian
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Smile

Hello Patrick; you can call me Joe if you wish . Your coin of Henry III has me puzzled as to the Moneyer - looks like RANDALF but what is your reading of it. I cannot make out the Mint signature so much depends on the Moneyer. If Randalf he is coining at Bury St Edmunds for Class 5. According to JJ North the Mints producing Class 5 Long Cross Pence were Bury St Edmunds; Durham, London and Canterbury.
Whatever, the Moneyer or Mint you have a nice coin for only 12 - a good buy. That your penny could be early class 5 based on the crown is matched by later class 5 g except that the X in REX is clearly straight sided thus it would seem your coin is Class 5 a sub class 1 or 2 either JJ North No 991/1, 991/2 . Please don't take this as definitive I'm really speculating out loud but the straight X seems unmistakeable - so not necessarily a common coin by any means. For me the jury is still out.
Regards - Jotapian
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Old Feb 4, 2004, 12:25 AM   #5
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Thanks for your reply. The scan isn't brilliant, which is probably what causes the confusion. The moneyer is Alein of Canterbury (ALE/INO/NCA/NTE), not so clear in the scan, perfectly clear in the hand. This moneyer only appears on types 5g and 5h. Again, the X looks straight in the scan, but that's only picked up the lighter coloured metal. In the hand, the darker toned metal is easily seen. The X is curved. The distinguishing feature I used to categorize this penny as a 5g rather than a 5h was the central fleur on the crown, which is quite nicely represented, and not the simple three pellets found on the 5g.

Cheers,

Patrick
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Old Feb 4, 2004, 12:36 AM   #6
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Hope this scan's a little clearer...
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Old Feb 4, 2004, 11:43 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by PatrickMaloney
...and not the simple three pellets found on the 5g.

Sorry! I mean "5h", of course.
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Old Feb 4, 2004, 04:42 PM   #8
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Patrick; As you demonstrate the X is indeed not the straight (North Fig 13) but is in fact bent (North Fig 16). The identity of the Moneyer as you say clearly indicates Class 5g.
As you say actual physical examination of the coin these details are much more apparent than in the scanned image. Which just goes to show that attributing coins solely from scanned images can be fraught with difficulties. But in many ways this challenge is one of the attractions of collecting Hammered English coins.
Cheers - Jotapian
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Old Feb 5, 2004, 10:28 AM   #9
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Jotapian - I agree entirely. There's little I enjoy more that a nice tough attribution! I do not have North volume 1, only a 1960 edition of volume 2, so I can't even look up my Henry III. I use Chris Wren's excellent series of identification guides. This is the first Henry III I have bought, and identified it within five minutes of opening the book. I can't imagine how anybody definitively attributed much using the old North volume, with its low contrast, fuzzy photos.

Your comment about the difference between "in the hand" inspection and viewing a scanned image highlights a very important point. It can be very easy to misattribute from a scan. Hence beware when buying from eBay. It may look rare, but actually isn't. Conversely, of course, it could look common, but be exceedingly rare. Good scanned images on eBay are rare, with many sellers being content to post an image of something that could be an out of focus milk bottle top for all you can tell from the scan.

Patrick
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Old Feb 5, 2004, 05:26 PM   #10
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Patrick,
Noting what you said on our recent exchange above- that you did not have a copy of JJ North Vol 1 - I thought you may be interested in a copy currently up for sale on Ebay UK Hammered pre 1660 English coins. I hasten to add the auction has absolutely nothing to do with me.

Cheers - Jotapian

P.S. I tried to send this to you via email but for some reason Netscape would not co-operate.
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Old Feb 5, 2004, 05:45 PM   #11
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Thanks very much! I am now watching that auction - I see it's the latest edition as well. Hope the pictures are better than in my 1960 vol 2!

Cheers,

Patrick
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Old Feb 16, 2004, 12:42 AM   #12
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I noticed that this item did not sell having failed to meet its' reserve. I presume the seller wanted to achieve the at least the same level as the Retail Price.
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Old Feb 16, 2004, 11:09 AM   #13
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Even the price it did reach was more than I am prepared to pay for it. I'm patient, my copy will come!
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Old Feb 18, 2004, 01:04 AM   #14
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This is the first English coin-die I've seen...Very nice indeed! Are there any more on the Internet?

http://www.pro.gov.uk/virtualmuseum/...ey/money_3.htm

What metal do you think it is? Seems like iron but...it is too well preserved...Bronze maybe?

Bogdan.
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Old Jun 9, 2009, 09:11 PM   #15
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You cannot beat the Brits on coinage!
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