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Forgery Alerts Reports and discussion regarding possible forgeries.

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Old Apr 1, 2009, 01:53 PM   #46
reidgold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gibfrog View Post
Mr Holt:

I am not a friend of rg. Here is the PERMENANT independant online archive of this sale.
http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotvie...ID=358&Lot=604
which, if someone does not access the http://www.forgerynetwork.com/asset....d=Knx6HMaNKYY= listing of have access to the the BOC hard copies, seem to indicate that this coin is authentic and sold for $100,000 + juice.
I wonder if Mr. Holt will say again, as he just did, "Blah blah blah blah - something typically hypothetical and unsubstantiated. Blah blah blah, I haven't bothered to find out for myself. Conspiracy theory, the sky is falling, blah, blah, blah."

There are other dealers who whenever the subject of fakes comes up accuse people of being conspiracy theorists or anti-dealer and all the rest. One dealer even wrote an article a few years with the premise "Are you sure it's fake?" to try to reassure collectors that not only is there not as serious a forgery problem as some believe but maybe a lot of condemned coins are really authentic.

On the other hand, there are conscientious dealers who honestly admit the problem of fakes, don't sell suspicious coins as authentic without any acknowledgment that they've been credibly questioned by experts (top auction houses have been shown to do just this), and don't try to discredit or silence those who try to warn others.

On the third hand, or foot, there are indeed conspiracy theorists out there who feel dealers conspire against collectors to knowingly foist off fakes and who irresponsibly condemn coins as false without adequate evidence, the kinds of people who call even the most expert dealer/numismatists "salesmen." Sure, they sell, but it's the connotation.

As always, in my view, conscientious dealers, and there are many of them, should be rewarded with patronage whenever possible. Not only are you rewarding good, but it's also in collectors' interest to buy from them because they show themselves to be more willing and able to filter out fakes.

It's not about being pro-dealer or anti-dealer but pro-truth. The interplay between truth and falsehood is one of the most interesting aspects of ancient coins and antiquities, seeing what people try to get away with, recognizing that there are gray areas and people fall along a continuum between totally good and totally bad, and trying to ferret out what's true and what's false, which includes admitting mistakes when you realize you've been wrong.
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Last edited by reidgold : Apr 1, 2009 at 04:49 PM.
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Old Apr 1, 2009, 03:46 PM   #47
gibfrog
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HJB, an IAPN member in good standing member, at the Gemini V auction, by Gemini LLC, did knowingly sell an IAPN condemned fake, for $100,000+ juice, for an assumed gross profit of about $30,000. I will stipulate that the IAPN published fake was first listed unknowingly, then withdrawn upon notification and finially relisted & sold. I am willing to further stipulate as correct, the allegations that after withdrawal and prior to relisting, HJB showed this IAPN published fake to a small number of experts and most agreed that it was authentic and I am willing to stipulate that HJB verbally disclosed to the buyer that this coin is an IAPN published fake, but in HJB's opinion, the coin is authentic and there is a money back gaurrentee.

In my opinion, HJB, as an IAPN member, should not have sold this coin at public auction without disclosing in the WRITTEN auction text, that this coin was formally condemned by the IAPN IBSCC. Until the IAPN redeems this coin, all IAPN members must officially consider this coin a fake, because that is the collective wisdom of their PROFESSIONAL organization.

The IAPN webpage states http://www.iapn-coins.org/
"The objectives of the Association are the development of a healthy and prosperous numismatic trade conducted according to the highest standards of business ethics and commercial practice"

So HJB effectively declared that his firm's judgement is superior to the collective wisdom of his professional organization, the IAPN. For the very same coin that the IAPN IBSCC condemned as a fake, there now exists published auction catalogue that this coin is authentic and estimated at $140,000 + juice, thanks to HJB.
http://www.geminiauction.com/details.asp?LotNumber=604
Here is the www.coinarchives.com record of its sale for $100,00 + juice
http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotvie...ID=358&Lot=604

In my opinion, if numismatic trade is conducted according to the highest standards of business ethics and commercial practice, then HJB should not have relisted this coin, but he should have sought to have the IAPN redeem this coin. or he should have sold it with the amended written description that it was determined to be fake by the IAPN IBSCC. The web page could have been corrected and an Eratta page distributed prior to auction. (Of course, this brutal honesty would have futher depressed the sales price and HJB's profits.) If the authencity is as obvious as Anton Tkalec posted on the CFDL, then why hasn't the IAPN already redeemed this coin? Of course, if Dr Lanz can convince the IAPN to redeem this coin, then HJB will be vindicated.

If HJB can determine that his firm's professional judgement is above the IAPN IBSCC, why can't every other IAPN dealer ignore or override any published IAPN IBSCC forgery determination (of course with a money back gaurrentee) and sell such a coin without written mention of the IAPN IBSCC condemnation? Since a few IAPN members are also ANA members, maybe all ANA dealers should be able to ignore or override any published IAPN IBSCC forgery determination (of course with a money back gaurrentee) and sell such a coin without written mention of the IAPN IBSCC condemnation.

Sincerely yours,
Cliff

PS. CNG had an issue with an IAPN forgery determination of a gold stater and they had the IAPN redeem the coin prior to their Triton V auction. http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotvie...cID=8&Lot=1286
In my opinion, this is the way it should be done when numismatic trade is conducted according to the highest standards of business ethics and commercial practice.
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