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Roman Roman Republican, Imperatorial, and Imperial coinage.

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Old Aug 28, 2007, 06:03 PM   #1
Vepcorf
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Aureus of Phillip II

Found by a detectorist yesterday in the same field I was searching.
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Old Aug 28, 2007, 06:14 PM   #2
4to2centophilia
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Wow.

What a great hobby in a great country for discoveries.


M
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Old Aug 28, 2007, 06:36 PM   #3
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Looks very like this modern fake from the Forvm Fake Reports, unfortunately.

The captive at Philip's feet on reverse is missing on the Forvm specimen, but the dies on both sides appear to be the same.
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Old Sep 7, 2007, 11:54 PM   #4
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If this is a fake, it really is unfortunate.

What I wonder about stories like this, though, is how did the modern fake get into the ground? Was it planted by a troublemaker one day?

If we know for a fact the detectorist did dig this up out of the ground, that seems to be the only explanation I can see.

Please excuse my possible ignorance on this subject, I am not familiar with metal detecting at all, and especially with coin hunting.
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Old Sep 8, 2007, 01:17 AM   #5
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If it wasn't gold (is it?) it could have been planted there, such stories have been common
in the short time I've been in coin collecting. But a fake aureus made of good gold is too valuable for that.
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Old Sep 8, 2007, 06:33 PM   #6
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Well the event was run near st Albans and there were around 150 detectorists. The coin was said to be found at the rally and shown to the local museum who were at the rally so I would think that would be risky if they knew it was fake as the British Museum will sure to be wanting to buy it. I was told that one has not been dug up for 15 years in England. This was the picture taken at the rally thats why it is not in good focus.
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Old Jul 8, 2008, 09:45 AM   #7
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I have noticed that this coin has been recorded with the PAS scheme in the UK details are:

A gold Aureus of Philip II as caesar, in very fine condition. This coin, which dates from AD 244-246, is thought to be the first gold coin of Philip II to have been found in Britain. The reverse type - PRINCIPI IVVENT (Philip II standing left, holding globe and spear; to left, at foot, a captive wearing Phrygian hat, seated left) is not published in the Roman Imperial Coinage volumes, but is an amalgam of different features on existing coins; the globe appears on RIC 218; the captive on RIC 219; the spear on RIC 220 (see coin classification). Measures 19.5mm in diameter, 1.4mm thick and weighs 3.1g.

maybe not a fake then?

http://www.findsdatabase.org.uk/hms/...146F8E15E012C8
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Old Jul 8, 2008, 10:06 AM   #8
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Nope, still fake.

Barry Murphy
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Old Jul 8, 2008, 10:18 AM   #9
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With the better pic in the database, you can definately see the die match to the modern fake. The style of the portrait is exactly the same, as is the lettering and Phillip II on the back. Also, finding a coin that is a compilation of RIC references is not exactly doing it justice. The RIC was quite meticulous in recording all the higher denomination varieties, so it isn't common to find an unlisted aureus. Just goes to show that not everything that is recorded in public databases is necessarily authentic.

Dmitry
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Old Jul 8, 2008, 01:13 PM   #10
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It just proves that they don't check the Forum fake reports...
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Old Jul 8, 2008, 01:56 PM   #11
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Weight

The weight of 3.1g is also low for an aureus of this time period and is suspiciously close to 1/10th of an ounce. The forger may have taken a 1/10th ounce bullion gold coin and struck this forgery. -h
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Old Jul 8, 2008, 02:51 PM   #12
4to2centophilia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hieron View Post
The weight of 3.1g is also low for an aureus of this time period and is suspiciously close to 1/10th of an ounce. The forger may have taken a 1/10th ounce bullion gold coin and struck this forgery. -h

Hmmmm...........that is pretty crafty thinking.

I may need to take a second look at that gallery of aureii you have
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Old Jul 8, 2008, 07:40 PM   #13
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Vepcorf

Don't underestimate the ability of people to plant such things, whether from the ground or from elsewhere. Also, as has been said, ironically the museums are not always equipped to know fakes given their limited 'real world' experience!

I would send to Fitzwilliam or BM for comment personally, the local museum is unlikely to know and be also be open to over-enthusiasm.

Brgds

Alex

nb. plus Curtis and Barry KNOW their stuff.
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Old Jul 8, 2008, 09:08 PM   #14
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I wouldn't be surprised if the "finder" dropped it from his pocket, making him the hero of the day. Maybe he has another from the same dies that is now "authentic". I don't know the finder so I could be way off, but it wouldn't be the first time a fake was planted to "authenticate" the dies.

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Old Jul 9, 2008, 06:17 AM   #15
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I must say i was very suspicious at the time as Roman gold coins are very very rare as detector finds as single losses. Most detectorists i know who have been detecting for 30 years have not found one. The lucky detectorists that find one usualy go on to find they are in a hoard such as the Oxon hoard in 1995. It's unfortunate we have characters around who will try to con be it for profit or to make themselves look like they have achieved a great find to others.
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